No surprises here. The work starts with you.
Stephanie and Jennifer PageWise are quantum relationship coaches for the LGBTQ+ community. And they want to help you heal your relationships so that you can heal the world. Because, as Stephanie says, this is a relational Universe.
Let's talk about:
CONNECT WITH STEPH AND JENN: www.enchantedawakenings.love // IG @ enchanted.awakenings // FB @ www.facebook.com/groups/EnchantedAwakenings
CONNECT WITH JULIA: www.divinerealignment.com // IG @ divine.realignment // FB @ www.facebook.com/groups/382079009892017
HOW TO HAVE THAT DIVINE RELATIONSHIP feat. Stephanie and Jennifer PageWise
Julia: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone! Welcome to Becoming Divine. My name is Julia Wesley. And today I have Stephanie and Jennifer PageWise with us. They are quantum relationship coaches that work with the LGBTQ+ community on healing their relationships.
So thank you so much for being with me today.
Jennifer: [00:00:15] You're welcome. We're excited to be here.
Julia: [00:00:17] So I love the idea of a quantum relationship coach. And we talked a little bit about this before, but do you guys mind explaining what you mean by quantum relationship coach?
Stephanie: [00:00:27] We would love to explain, would you like to go first?
Jennifer: [00:00:32] Yeah. We've discussed this a lot because people are like, well, what do you mean by quantum? And what we mean is that it's mind, body, and spirit as a whole and the energy that's involved in mind, body, and spirit. And looking at all of those pieces and how it affects your relationship.
And then, once you can start looking at healing, each of those parts, it affects every relationship that you're in, in this world. And in turn, we're healing the world.
Julia: [00:00:58] Oh, Ooh, I like that. So it's mind, body spirit. It's a very holistic approach to relationships. Do you find that when you work with people, they tend to compartmentalize in a relationship?
Stephanie: [00:01:10] Absolutely. I mean, we're very much caught in this physical layer of the planet. And we think about ourselves not spiritually very often. We think of ourselves behaviorally and physically. And so it very much gets caught in this shame and blame game. She did this to me. He did this to me. I'd screwed up this and these are all the things.
And so we get caught up in the story of the physical world, and we're not looking at it through this lens of deeper healing and our spiritual divine selves. And to us, that's where true healing is. Everything that we see on this planet in this physical world is an out-picturing of our belief in ourself and who we are.
And when you don't look at that part, everything else is a band-aid.
Jennifer: [00:01:55] And you come to this world acting like a victim. Things are happening to you, as opposed to 'I'm creating my world'.
Julia: [00:02:02] Right. That's an interesting point. To help someone come to the idea that they're creating their experience.
Do you find that is sometimes difficult to get people to accept?
Jennifer: [00:02:15] It was difficult for me to accept! You know, I have a chronic illness, or I should say I experienced chronic illness at times. And my chronic illness had gotten so bad that I spent probably 22 hours a day in bed. And I felt like a victim of the world.
And it wasn't until I opened my eyes and said, 'wait a minute, what can I do differently here?' that things started changing and my life started changing, and my body, this physical body that I'm in started healing. And yes, I still have a day here and there or moments that I'm like, 'Ugh, I'm not feeling the greatest right this moment, but what can I do differently to shift the other parts of me so that I can feel better?'
Stephanie: [00:03:00] Well, and the other thing that I think that happens for us now is we see that 'okay, what is this body telling me that I need?' And sometimes I truly do need to go take a nap.
Julia: [00:03:11] Right.
Stephanie: [00:03:12] So we're starting to get information from this body to inform us rather than being the victim of the body and it's working against us.
Julia: [00:03:20] Yes. Isn't that so powerful to not see the body as victimizing?
Jennifer: [00:03:26] Yeah, that's an eye-opening awakening. But it's not an easy concept to grasp because we don't want to believe that, 'why would I create this in myself?' If I'm dealing with some sort of illness, like, you know-- we lost a very good friend of ours last year. She ended up with a brain tumor that she ended up transitioning. And it's like, to think about the fact of 'why would she do that to herself?' You have to look at so much more about that. And that, you know, she was ready to transition because it was time for the next level of evolution for her.
Stephanie: [00:04:01] Trust us, in the early days of that, that was not where we were. We were feeling very victimized by this tumor that had appeared in her head.
Jennifer: [00:04:08] And took her physically away from us. Yet, she's still with us, and guides us-- but wow. It's tough because why would you want to believe that you've created whatever is going on in your life?
Julia: [00:04:21] And that's a good point. I'm sure you run into that a lot where people are so in the victim mindset, cause I have been there-- if someone had told me that, ' well, it's your fault you're depressed and anxious'. I would be like, 'thanks, but no thanks. That's not helpful'. You know? Is there a process where you have to help move people a little bit from the, you can make choices, mindset?
Stephanie: [00:04:41] The very, very first thing that we have to do is take away the blame and shame game. It's like, it's not your fault. Let's take away that word.
Julia: [00:04:48] Yeah.
Stephanie: [00:04:49] Let's take away the shame of it. And just, this is where you are.
Julia: [00:04:53] Right.
Stephanie: [00:04:53] You are depressed. You're miserable.
Julia: [00:04:57] Yeah.
Stephanie: [00:04:57] Just own it for a moment. Stop being angry with it. Stop lamenting it. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and say, ' I feel like, horrible'. And I didn't use any swear words.
[00:05:13]But just acknowledge it and then, 'okay, well what's one thing that I can do to shift this?' So the way in is not to just continue to belabor, 'You're creating this, you're creating this.' And I don't know about you, but I've had people do that to me. And that felt assaulted.
Julia: [00:05:29] Yes. Yes.
Stephanie: [00:05:31] So what we really do, it's like, okay, well, let's write it down on paper, whatever you need to do to really just own exactly where you are right now.
Julia: [00:05:40] Bingo. Right? Isn't that exactly it? You can't move or make any sort of choice if you can't first say, 'well, this is what I'm dealing with right now'.
This is where I am, you know? And I found actually through meditation, through working with my depression and anxiety, that as soon as I sat in my body and was present with myself, then I was like-- Somehow, I feel like I have more space. Even though I'm in this space that I didn't want to be, now I can feel like I can actually take action. Even if I don't know what kind of action that should be.
If I sit here long enough, maybe it'll come to me. And you're right about removing the blame and the shame from it, right? Because if this isn't a tool-- and this is one of those little double-edged sword, sort of little pieces of knowledge, right? You create your reality. 'Well, are you telling me that I created this horrible thing that happened to me?'
Yes, but no, you're not to blame, you know? What use is blame?
Jennifer: [00:06:37] Just take the judgment away.
Julia: [00:06:39] Exactly.
Jennifer: [00:06:40] And just, this is what is. So what little baby steps can we help you with to shift? Just a little! And every little step becomes huge!
Julia: [00:06:50] Yeah. Yes.
Stephanie: [00:06:52] The reality is there's been a million subconscious decisions that have gotten you to where you are, right this very minute.
All right. So now we're going to bring that into the consciousness. So that as I make decisions going forward, they're conscious decisions, not subconscious decisions. Guess what happens now? Now you're empowered.
Julia: [00:07:11] Yeah. I was going to say, that's the next step, right? At first, you may see it as something that's victimizing, but then it brings to mind the idea that 'I can influence my reality? I actually have that power and that authority?' And that is when you can start using it as a tool for good. Instead of something to hurt yourself with.
Jennifer: [00:07:32] Right. And you can see, you know, how huge you really are. And that our little current existence is only a microcosm of who we really are.
Julia: [00:07:42] Yeah. Yeah, that's so cool. You guys are talking about moving from the physical perspective into like the spiritual perspective. And I was wondering about your perspective on this. I understand, splitting those two things up as a means of it like a teaching tool, but I also come from the perspective that the physical is created by the spiritual.
So I'm interested. Do you heal people's relationships with the physical by first taking that spiritual perspective and then bringing people back down? How do you guys do that?
Jennifer: [00:08:14] It depends on where someone is because if someone has never been exposed to spirituality, it could be a little woo-woo for people.
You know, then they're like, you lose them. So you have to find out where they're at. And then that's what makes it so wonderful is that when we work with people individually, we can see where they're at and then determine, what is the best path in? And we do always add the spirituality, but some people are more ready for the real deep spiritual work, right from the get-go.
And some people we have to gently give them that nudge and help them connect.
Stephanie: [00:08:52] We're here, in physical for a reason. There's lessons to be learned. And if we, as the coaches believe that your body is an out-picturing of your spirit, then we can start there easily and not feel like we're working on a lower plane.
We're just working from the place where you can receive the information. And the beginning of the healing. Jennifer started her process of healing from a physical perspective. She had been on a tremendous number of medications and things like that. And she started trying to decrease the medications, but using essential oils, meditation, yoga, Reiki, but she started with more of the body side of it.
Julia: [00:09:37] Right.
Stephanie: [00:09:38] To discipline her mind and then more and more of the spirituality could come. And it's the same case for all of us. I also have struggled with depression and sometimes it's just get out and move your body.
Julia: [00:09:50] Yes, absolutely. Because so much gets stuck in your body.
Stephanie: [00:09:54] It does. We're energetic beings. It's just denser energy. So to discount the body and go straight to the spirituality, discounts the body.
Julia: [00:10:02] Exactly. I completely agree. Yeah. And I think that there is this idea of wanting to avoid the low-hanging fruit. And I actually think that that gets a bad rap, because what's easiest for you?
What will you most readily accept? And that's the low-hanging fruit. And I think that we should cheat a little bit, make it easy on ourselves. If it's easiest for you to accept the physical side of it first, then shoot.
Jennifer: [00:10:26] And we're here for a reason. I don't believe that we're in these bodies for no reason whatsoever.
We have something and we have gifts that we're supposed to be here to give. So we have to take care of these bodies.
Julia: [00:10:38] Yes. Yeah. They're not just meat suits. It's an expression of us.
Stephanie: [00:10:41] Right, right. We are students of a Course of Miracles and it's a very black and white system of thought in many ways.
And what it says is that only love is real. Anything other than love is illusion. Well, people who are very militant about that black and white, they discount everything in the physical. And that was one of the things that I had to overcome because people would just be like, 'well, that's illusion. It doesn't matter.'
Well, but something here does matter, obviously. Cause we're all here. So we're not going to just discount it, we're going to look at it. Where is the spiritual in the physical? What are the spiritual teachings that are happening in this relationship that I'm in?
Yes, there's a physical being next to me, but there's a spiritual connection. So it's both/and, we have to be both/and.
Julia: [00:11:28] I agree. And I think that people tend to, when you do take that militant perspective like you said, it tends to veer into spiritual bypassing, because even if it's not love and it's not real, you're still engaging in the illusion.
And if you didn't, you wouldn't be so angry about it. I'm just saying, you know?
Stephanie: [00:11:46] You're just trying to avoid it because it hurts.
Julia: [00:11:49] Yeah. And that's understandable who wants to touch something that hurts? But at the same time, we have to.
Stephanie: [00:11:56] It's the only way past it! It truly is. And we're not coaches who want to go dig deep into the stuff of your past and live there.
We're living in the now, knowing that things that have happened in the past are impacting our perception of the now. So you have to go take a peek, fly the drone over, get a good look at it. Understand a little bit of it and then apply it here now.
Jennifer: [00:12:20] So you can affect your future.
Yes. Oh, I love that. It's affecting your perspective of the now. Yeah, the perspective is so important. Yeah.
Yeah. We can't change the past.
Julia: [00:12:34] You can change how you relate to it, but it is what it is.
Jennifer: [00:12:36] Right. You can change the way you relate to it and the way you are relating to it today.
Julia: [00:12:41] Exactly.
Jennifer: [00:12:42] You can affect your future.
Julia: [00:12:44] Yes, exactly. I love that. So I see also that you help people with codependency. And a way to help heal-- is it your current relationship? Is it always a relationship with someone else or is it sometimes you help people heal their relationship with themselves? Or is it the same work?
Stephanie: [00:13:00] Oooh. Good question.
Yes! [Laughter]
No, I don't think that we can heal our relationships with others without healing our relationship with ourselves. Because I think it truly is, what I experience from you is how am I seeing it through the lens of me? So whatever happens out there, it's all getting translated through my eye. And I use 'eye' as my physical eyes, my spiritual eyes, my mental eyes.
So it's again, that quantum, the mind, body spirit. You can't do this work without doing your own stuff. And looking at yourself. It just doesn't work.
Jennifer: [00:13:42] And the biggest thing that I've learned over the years is that if I don't love me, I can't truly show love to others.
Julia: [00:13:50] Isn't that the thing?
Stephanie: [00:13:52] It is.
Jennifer: [00:13:52] Cause you have to love you first. So we work with a lot of folks that are single. Because we want to look at what have been your patterns that maybe created relationships to end, and not bringing in the right people in your life. So let's start with how you love you. And then, if you're vibrating at a high level, that's what you're going to attract.
Stephanie: [00:14:14] And you're going to be ready for them.
Julia: [00:14:15] Okay. Yes. Readiness. What energetically do you find that readiness feels like, looks like, sounds like? Is it like surrendering to the process? Is it being open?
Stephanie: [00:14:27] There's a bit of surrender. I think that there's desire.
Julia: [00:14:31] Okay.
Stephanie: [00:14:31] Desire for something more, something that's not the way it has been. Another course that we study is called The Way of Mastery and The Way of Mastery says that there's four keys to the kingdom desire, intention, surrender, and allowance.
Everything starts with desire. So I desire to have a relationship that's different than the way it's been. And then what are my intentions? Those are the activities that I'm going to do to bring that new relationship and that new paradigm into my life. So it's truly that desire and then coupling it with the intentions.
So I desire to have a new type of relationship but the only place I'm looking for it is on Tinder? Doesn't really line up.
Julia: [00:15:18] Right.
Stephanie: [00:15:19] So you have to look, what is my true desire? And what are the activities that I'm going to do to foster that true desire?
Jennifer: [00:15:27] And then how am I going to surrender to when it--
Stephanie: [00:15:30] shows up--
Jennifer: [00:15:31] shows up, so I can allow it in!
Julia: [00:15:33] So in terms of codependency, do you find that is a problem of equal weight for people who are single as well as in a relationship?
Stephanie: [00:15:44] I truly believe that this planet is a codependent planet and certainly the Western society because we're always looking for something outside of us to fill us up.
That's that's the soup that we swim in. That I need the diet Coke to make me skinny. I need the sports car to make me happy. That's codependent.
Julia: [00:16:06] Yes!
Stephanie: [00:16:08] So I'm depending on something outside of myself for my own happiness, how can that not but happen in a relationship?
So earlier in our life, I was the superhero. I'm a social worker, you know, I had my own fitted superhero costume.
Julia: [00:16:22] Cape and everything, huh?
Stephanie: [00:16:24] Oh, the sequins, baby! But I was doing that to get the love that I desired from the universe.
Was I caring? Of course, there was a part of me that absolutely cares, but I wasn't doing it to be caring. I was doing it to get something back. Fundamentally. Subconsciously. But when I really realized that, and it was time to take off the superhero costume, I was able to start allowing true love to inspire what I did in the world and inspire my perspective of myself. And that love started to come right for me. It wasn't a transactional relationship anymore. I wasn't giving you money to love me, giving you this to love me.
So it transcends that transactional thing. And that's really what codependency is about; is that I'm going to do this so that I can get this back. And so I'm not going to set clear boundaries on what's okay for me and not okay for me, because if I set a boundary that something's not okay with me, then you might go away.
Julia: [00:17:26] Yeah.
Stephanie: [00:17:27] So I'm not going to have any sense of true self, because it shifts! Cause I don't even know what it is. I haven't decided what's okay with me and what's not okay with me. And I'm going to be hustling for my worth with you all the time.
Julia: [00:17:43] Man. Hustling for your worth.
Stephanie: [00:17:45] Brene Brown quote, I can't own that.
Julia: [00:17:47] Oh, okay. Look at you, Brene. That's such a good one.
Yeah. Hustling for your worth. And that is something, you're talking about relationships, but I'm like, I used to do that at my corporate job all the time. Hustle for my work. Yeah. My worth.
Stephanie: [00:18:03] Well, you know, we're in relationship with everything. This is a relational universe.
Julia: [00:18:07] Yeah.
Stephanie: [00:18:07] I'm in relationship with the pen I'm holding in my hand. [Laughter].
Julia: [00:18:10] Yeah.
Stephanie: [00:18:11] So it is, it's very holistic.
Julia: [00:18:15] It is. And I think people forget just how-- they call it the 'woo'. And I use that term as well, just because people know what I'm talking about, but it's so practical. It's just the way things are. And the more awareness that we have of just the way things are, the more, your life will change.
You'll be able to interact with it in a conscious way. Like you guys have been saying before, and what you guys were talking about was like, as the Buddha said, non-attachment.
Stephanie: [00:18:40] Yes.
Julia: [00:18:41] And from someone who's having a real time wrapping their head around the idea of non-attachment in like a relationship, where it seems as if the paradigm is, you're supposed to be incredibly attached to this person-- like an alien, you know, sucking on your face kind of a thing. And how do you-- yeah, right? How do you get someone to wrap their head around the idea that through non-attachment you actually get . . .
Stephanie: [00:19:07] True connection?
Julia: [00:19:08] Yeah.
Jennifer: [00:19:09] Well, I mean, you talk about codependency and we talk about interdependency. And that is the perfect relationship because you can depend on someone because you want to and because they want to give something to you. But you also have your ability to depend on yourself and be able to go and do things on your own. I mean, we went through a phase in our relationship, where we were extremely codependent.
Stephanie talks about her superhero costume. She wouldn't go do something that I couldn't physically do because she was worried that I would feel bad, that she was going and doing it. It's like, wait a minute, you have the right to go hiking. Just because I can't doesn't mean that you shouldn't go enjoy yourself.
And you know, we've gotten to the point now where if Stephanie wants to go hang out with someone and do something, she does. If I want to, now we're talking pre-COVID, obviously. You know, certain restrictions that we're all under right now. But if I want to go do something with someone or something that she may not enjoy, I just say, 'hey, I'm going to go do this'.
And it's like, okay, so we'll hang out later. Let's join back up together and have dinner together.
Julia: [00:20:19] The lack of panic that you feel trying to hold on to someone all the time, or anything for that matter...
Jennifer: [00:20:26] Right. There's no, there's no jealousy. It just is.
Stephanie: [00:20:31] I think your original question was how do you help someone understand the difference between attachment and connection? And attachment, when I think about it, it's the grasping. It's the holding tight. And don't get me wrong-- there's attachment between Jennifer and I, and there's going to be attachment.
It's a human construct. We want to keep the things that we have.
Julia: [00:20:54] Right.
Stephanie: [00:20:54] Because it feels good, but it's, can you loosen it up a little bit? That white knuckle grip? Just loosen it a little bit. Just start there and start to realize that that person is not going to fly away because you open your hands. And as you do that and you test the waters, you can start to experience a little bit more of that freedom of movement and they keep coming back.
Jennifer: [00:21:19] And if they don't, then they're not the right--
Stephanie: [00:21:21] They weren't there anyway.
Jennifer: [00:21:22] Right.
Stephanie: [00:21:23] And it's almost, you can't explain it. You have to say, just try this. Here's the concept. Just try this baby step. I had to do this myself because I truly was, I would not go hiking because she couldn't hike.
I love hiking. It's one of my favorite things to do. And I literally would not allow myself to do that. And so I would say I'm going to go for a 20-minute walk. And I would come back and everything was fine. It's like, 'okay, see, I can do that. Okay. Maybe I can do an hour'. And I started to trust the relationship, and to trust her, and to trust me to be okay.
Jennifer: [00:21:57] And to trust for me to say, if I wasn't comfortable because you had said, we were going to do this today instead. So we talk it out and it's like, 'Oh, well maybe we can do that later. Or we can do that tomorrow because the weather's going to be good today. And today's a really good day for me to get out and hike and tomorrow we can do that'.
So it's all, again, negotiating and communicating.
Julia: [00:22:20] That's an interesting point. I never thought of a way of healing codependency involved trust.
Stephanie: [00:22:26] If you think about it, when we first described it, that 'I'm doing something to get something out of you', that implies a lack of trust.
Julia: [00:22:34] Yeah, it does. Doesn't it?
Stephanie: [00:22:36] It really does. And so the only way to build trust is to practice it.
Julia: [00:22:41] Practice it!
Stephanie: [00:22:42] Yes. And that kind of circles back to our original conversation, part of this conversation is like, is it mind, body or spirit?
Well, body is about practicing things. And so is it behavioral or is it spiritual? Yes--it's both!-- because that's why we need these physical bodies. We're learning things spiritually. We're using the physical bodies and our physical brains to test the waters of these spiritual concepts.
It's like, 'Oh, that does ring true for me'. And now, 'Oh, I trust more. I heard this thing. I applied this thing. I trust this thing. I'm starting to open up and in that spaciousness, now I can begin to hear the voice of God.
Julia: [00:23:22] Yeah. I really like the idea of practice. That has come up on this podcast quite a few times.
The idea of practicing mindfulness or practicing trust so that, when it's go time, you're not expecting perfection in a moment of crisis, right? It's like, you've never thrown a football a day in your life, but you're going to play in the Superbowl and expect to get a trophy at the end of it.
You know? Like that's not how that works. And the idea of, 'oh, I can practice trust? Oh, I can practice mindfulness?' You know, like it's not just a theory, that it's not real until it is.
Stephanie: [00:23:55] Right. I love that your perspective that we are in this body for a reason.
Julia: [00:23:59] Yeah.
Stephanie: [00:24:00] And we are completely aligned with that concept. We really do believe that this physical being, which is really just dense energy, is here practicing something because we forgot that we're children of God. So now we have to practice figuring out how to get back into that true solid belief that we are divine beings.
Jennifer: [00:24:20] And that we serve a purpose on this planet.
Julia: [00:24:22] It's true. A lot of the work that I do is in the Akashic records. I'm an Akashic records reader. I help people focus on their NOW moment and realize the importance of being themselves, and not pretending to be like a French nobleman in the 17 hundreds. Like, no, you're you on purpose.
You're a fractal of God. God will never create another one of you again before or after you. So it's very important that we focus on this lens on this physical experience because you're here for a reason. You chose this. You created this reality.
And you really help people, I see, build a solid foundation off of acceptance, love, and spirituality. And I find the spirituality part to be interesting because I wonder if you help people who come from different spiritual lineages or backgrounds or even religion, and I know that we had touched on religion when we had talked previously-- a little bit about how that can be a minefield, especially people in the community that you serve.
Jennifer: [00:25:14] Absolutely. I mean, there are some religions that literally say you are sin because you are in the LGBT community. That is just sinful. That's what they've been brought up to believe. And so that's another layer that people have to be able to heal. To be able to move forward and to be their true self.
Stephanie: [00:25:34] It's almost like the entire queer community is a little bit disenfranchised from spirituality because of this. I've been called an abomination. By someone who had been a friend of mine at work, and I don't know if he had been drinking, that loosens his tongue or if like the voice of God, of some God, just inspired him to tell me that I was an abomination. In the office.
Julia: [00:25:54] Oh my God.
Stephanie: [00:25:55] You know, and it's like--
Jennifer: [00:25:56] when people have that from their families!
Stephanie: [00:25:58] Yeah.
And I was very connected to the church that I grew up in and it was a major source of strength for me and comfort. And then when I realized that I was lesbian, I was terrified to go into a church, because I didn't know who was judging me and who was not judging me.
There are certain words still that make me tense up inside. And so if we're tense, how do we relate to people truly and openly? And if we're walking through this planet tense, because we don't know what person is imagining knifing us in the back--
Jennifer: [00:26:32] or punching us in the face--
Stephanie: [00:26:33] then we're always on guard. And then we take that into our relationships. We expect our relationship to be the only safe place where we can be our true selves when we're not even bringing our true selves to that relationship because we're bringing our guarded self to the relationship. So it's a major block.
It's a major block to our interconnectedness with all beings and even our beloved. So the way that we help people is to start to transcend the traditional framework of religion. Religion is the house of spirituality. It's a house of spirituality.
Julia: [00:27:09] Right.
Stephanie: [00:27:10] You get to choose your house. My house is a wide-open field with trees and birds and blueberries.
And you know, that's my spirituality house. Some people have a house that looks like the Catholic church. Some people have a house that looks like a Lutheran church. Some people have a Buddhist house, whatever your house is, but it's just to hold your spirituality.
Julia: [00:27:32] Right.
Stephanie: [00:27:33] So spirituality is bigger and in our community, we feel like the door has been locked on the house.
And so we are hoping to offer a way to find the key to your own spirituality and not need somebody else's house.
Jennifer: [00:27:49] And to realize that, you know, God created each and every one of us in perfection. And what other people might believe isn't our business. It doesn't matter. And that's a really hard thing to say. That it doesn't matter what other people think because we're humans and we want people to like us. And it doesn't matter what they think.
It's what we feel, what we believe, what we think.
Julia: [00:28:12] Because who doesn't struggle with caring what other people think? From an evolutionary standpoint, you want your community to take care of you because there's safety in numbers. If I'm out here alone, a wild boar is going to take me down. I need these people to care for me.
So in that respect at a very visceral level, of course, I care what people think about me. But I think coming to the understanding that what is probably more safe, is for you to care about what you think of you. You can never really be truly safe if you're always relying on someone else to give you that safety.
Stephanie: [00:28:46] Right.
Jennifer: [00:28:46] Right. You've got to have that safety in yourself and that safety in that connection with all that there is, and that higher being.
Julia: [00:28:54] I like how you were likening aspects of spirituality as a house. I think that is very apt. I grew up in the Catholic church, which is if you're Catholic, you know, that's the way to say that I am no longer Catholic, but I am familiar with the culture and the upbringing of it.
And it influences the way that I see the world because I was in it for so long. But I no longer identify with it. And I was wondering if part of what you do is if you help teach people, that I was angry at Catholicism for a really long time, but there are parts that I genuinely like about it. They are great at creating sacred spaces.
They're really great at creating reverence and they're great at rituals. They can set a mood, man. And they're big on the woo. They did the incense, they're doing transformations up at the altar. Don't tell me they're not. And so. I liked that about it. And do you help people see that even though this was not a safe space for you, there were some places and bits of this that you did like, and you can take it and build your own house with that.?
Jennifer: [00:29:55] Absolutely. I think that's what spirituality is. It's your connection with what makes sense to you? Cause my upbringing was Judaism, so it's different than someone who grew up in Catholicism. But again, as you said, there are parts of Judaism that I absolutely love and cherish. There's parts of it, not so much anymore.
So I've had to create what works for me and you take some of that, what I consider as culture that I love from Judaism and put it into what I believe in my own spirituality now and create my beautiful rainbow house.
Julia: [00:30:33] I like that because I think coming to the realization that you're a fractal of God, and you have the authority to interact with spirituality in a way that suits you best is sort of mind-boggling. I know people who still identify as Catholic, but are really struggling with it and they take this all-or-nothing perspective of it. And that again is, to use the word that you used before, that's a bit militant. And with that energy, you'll never come to reconciliation.
Stephanie: [00:31:00] Exactly. And if we extrapolate that to your view of yourself and your view of your relationship, if you think that, because one thing about that church is bad, and then you extrapolate that to yourself. Well, one thing about you is not going the way you want, then you throw yourself out too.
And it's like, okay, well, let's soften this a little bit. Let's find the qualities that do work for you. And let's accentuate those and love those and allow that to bring you connection. And as those become stronger, the other things kind of melt away. They become less important. And then you can attract people who also share those same things, where you can connect with those together. And build those relationships.
Julia: [00:31:41] When you can get to a place with spirituality, you understand that in the non-physical, there is such support for you and such unconditional love for you. I had to get over this little hump so that I could feel empowered enough and disconnected enough from the previous paradigm that I was part of. But it's almost sad to take religion like that and feel so disconnected from it because I think religion, used appropriately, is a really healthy tool, but we just relate to it poorly.
And I think it's great to help people get over that hump and realize that the community that you had before it also exists on the other side.
So, one of the other things that you deal with is no self-care as a way to crumble a relationship.
So what do you teach people in terms of what's practical self-care?
Jennifer: [00:32:35] I think one of the first things that we ask people is when you were a child because children had this amazing innocence and that connection that we lose as we get conditioned in society.
So when people say, 'I don't know what I like to do. I don't know what makes me happy.' What did you like to do when you were a child? Is normally where we'll start, because normally you can come up with a few things that you really enjoy doing, and then we can look at, 'okay, so what can you do for yourself today that will bring you that kind of happiness?'
So for me, I love horses. I grew up with horses. I love them. Now, I physically can't ride anymore because of my physical limitations. But you know what? I can go and volunteer in a barn and help groom them and help care for them and help love them. So that is a way I can take something that I loved as a child and now turn it into something that I love as an adult. And that is self-care.
Doing something that makes you feel good. It's self-care. So it varies for people. Some people like to meditate. Stephanie loves to go hiking in the mountains. That's not self-care for me. That's physically difficult for me. So what do you love?
We kayak together. Cause we have found that is something we can do physically together and enjoy because I have more difficulty with my legs. So kayaking is upper bodywork. So self-care is about finding something that makes you happy.
And how can you find time to do that?
Stephanie: [00:34:08] So what Jennifer's speaking about is those things that feed your soul, but there's also like the nuts and bolts of caring for this body that you're in.
And if you aren't you know, eating things that are okay for you, that don't make you ill; if you're getting enough water, having a good sleep, hygiene-- there's a discipline there that if you don't have it, you really do need to be able to get it in order to do this higher level of work. Because if you are living on McDonald's cheeseburgers, sleeping two hours a night, and living on caffeine, that franticness is going to be there.
And when the franticness, this is there, it's going to show up everywhere. Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the bottom is physiological needs followed by safety needs, and you have to make sure those physiological needs are taken care of.
Does that mean you're a vegetarian or does it just mean that you eat three square meals a day? Whatever it is, whatever your deal is, please be mindful of that. That's there too. And as physical beings on this planet, we must be taking care of those as well, so that we can get to making sure that you get time with horses or you do the hobbies that you desire.
I'm also a musician, playing the guitar, singing those sorts of things. If I haven't eaten well in a week, do I feel like playing guitar? No. And that's one way that I connect with my spiritual self.
Julia: [00:35:30] That's an excellent point. This is like the second time this has come up on the podcast, I am also horse people. I rode horses for like 10 years and I'm like, I just want to look at a horse'. I miss horses so much. It's like the universe being like, 'you should visit a barn'.
Stephanie: [00:35:46] And it doesn't have to be big. You don't have to own a horse to have that connection.
Julia: [00:35:51] Although, now that you say it, I do want a pony.
Stephanie: [00:35:54] And that's okay! That's what your desire is then that is it. But if that's not where you are in your life, and you can't do that, don't throw it out!
Just back to the religion thing, just because you're not in a place where the whole religion fits you, you don't have to throw it out. Keep what works. So if it's two hours a week at a barn, to just be around the smell of horses and pet a few noses, that's where you're at. If that grows into riding lessons and eventually owning your pony, then great!
But you don't have to have it all as the first step.
Julia: [00:36:29] I'm really interested to hear what you guys think about how we currently relate to self-care? I most often on the interwebs see self-care as 'have a bottle of wine' or, 'take that bubble bath' and I'm not saying that those things aren't nice, but I think as your main form of self-care, I think it's missing the deeper work.
Stephanie: [00:36:49] Yeah, I do as well. That sounds like a luxury to me. And while a luxury can be a really wonderful thing to also have. That's certainly not where I am with the idea of self-care. I'm really much more about taking care of your physiological needs, your safety needs, and then your love and belongingness.
And for me, taking a bubble bath doesn't help me feel like I belong anywhere. It's great for 15, 20 minutes, but it's not building my connection with the universe.
Jennifer: [00:37:19] Eating well, drinking enough water and getting our sleep, and feeling good and energized every day gives us a way to then connect with the universe.
Julia: [00:37:28] It's a good point you made about it being a luxury rather than actual genuine work that you're doing for yourself.
Stephanie: [00:37:37] Right. The idea of work sometimes, 'oh, I have to do this hard thing'. No, it doesn't. Discipline is another word that also has a lot of negative connotations, but it's, oh, I wish I could think of a different word to describe it, but intention--
Julia: [00:37:52] It's like honoring yourself. What do you need? Do you really need that bottle of wine? Do you? Or do you need a nap at this moment?
Jennifer: [00:38:01] Right. And it also goes back to when we were talking about anything else, it's practice. It becomes a practice.
Stephanie: [00:38:10] You have a bottle of wine as a practice? You might have a bigger problem.
Julia: [00:38:13] That is a deeper issue!
Jennifer: [00:38:16] You know, you need to look at that and see how that's affecting your relationships.
Julia: [00:38:22] Yes. That is an excellent point. In terms of self-care, do you help people use self-care to deal with codependency?
Stephanie: [00:38:32] Oh yes. You know, I hadn't even thought about it that way really, but that's truly-- it's part of it.
It's knowing what your needs are rather than always being focused on the needs of others. And so self-care is a component of that. And that's certainly what we were talking about in terms of my hiking. That is a self-care activity for me and I wasn't paying attention to my needs for it.
I was actually putting it away in deference to what I thought Jennifer needed, which I was totally wrong by the way, completely wrong. Cause I never checked in. I just made assumptions.
Codependency is a lot about assumptions. Isn't it? I'm assuming that you need this from me, but I actually haven't checked in.
Julia: [00:39:11] Yeah, it's such a God complex kind of a thing, isn't it? Like, I know what you need.
Stephanie: [00:39:16] Yeah. 'I know that you need me to run around putting out your fires'. 'I know you need me to buy you another bottle of alcohol to keep in the fridge because I know that you're an alcoholic and so you're going to need it. So I'm going to make sure I do that'.
I mean, sometimes taking a bath is a self-care activity.
Julia: [00:39:32] Yeah.
Stephanie: [00:39:33] Absolutely. It's a quiet time. It's a meditative time. Absolutely. Anything can be.
Julia: [00:39:38] Yeah.
Stephanie: [00:39:38] It's just, if we're only looking at it that way, or if that's the only thing we do?
That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Julia: [00:39:45] It's almost escapism at that point then.
Which has its place. But again, if you're trying to actually change your life, spiritual bypassing is not the way to do it.
Stephanie: [00:39:54] No one thing is good or bad, but if you look at it as a whole, if that's the only one thing you're doing well, that's probably not going to do it for you.
So when, when you start looking at codependency, and what is codependency-- let's just define it a little more clearly: it's believing that everybody else is more important than me and I'm using everybody else to get my own self worth, so that I feel okay about me and my world. And trying to control everything so that I stay okay.
So it's really not a loving thing at all. It's really selfish. We don't think of it because I'm taking care of everybody else. Well, it just doesn't work that way. And so there is a component of self-care and, and caring about myself. So there's self-care activities, which we were talking about-- having the bath, go into the barn, whatever.
So, but there's caring about self and that's what we're really talking about. If you care about your child, you're going to make sure that your child gets all the meals that your child needs. And proper sleep and proper hygiene and all those things. So it's almost looking at yourself as if you are your own child.
Julia: [00:40:55] Oh. Yeah.
Stephanie: [00:40:57] And what do I need? What is it that's going to help me feel good? Cause we don't want our three-year-old to not feel good. Okay. So what do you need?
Julia: [00:41:04] I think sometimes seeing yourself as that little kid-- every once in a while, I like to check in with my inner five-year-old.
She was sassy. She knew what was up, but also I'm not going to be mean to my inner five-year-old. And I really am the same-- time is non-linear, so we're going to get weird here, but I am the same five-year-old as I am the same 28-year-old as I am the same 36-year-old. The same basic needs and things that I need to honor about that person are the same.
So would I talk to my inner five-year-old like that? I don't think so. That would be mean.
Jennifer: [00:41:36] You would love them. You would care for them. You would see what they needed and you provide it if you can. So why don't we do that to our adult selves?
Julia: [00:41:45] Yeah. Exactly. Well, thank you so much for speaking with me you guys. Do you mind telling everyone where they can find you and how they can work with you?
Stephanie: [00:41:55] Well, we have our website is www.enchantedawakenings.love. Yes, dot love, not .com. Which, is that not cool?
Julia: [00:42:06] That is cool. I didn't know, that was a possibility.
Stephanie: [00:42:10] We didn't either, again, it showed up. I'm like, well, that's a God thing.
So, enchantedawakenings.love is our website. And that will link you to everything you need to know about us. We have a free Facebook group also called Enchanted Awakenings that you can ask to join. And we do screen folks so that we know that people are coming in for the reason of spiritual awakening within relationships.
So it's a very safe place and we go live in there almost daily and give you lots and lots of free goodies. And it's a way to get to know us and find out if you want to work with us and take the deeper ride into Holy relationships.
Julia: [00:42:48] Wow. That sounds like an excellent resource. Thank you so much. You guys, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your wisdom with us.
And we'll see you next time.