Doesn't it seem like it's an extrovert's world, and introverts are just living in it?
There are numerous definitions out there on what an extrovert is and what an introvert is. Most place people into these two categories based on behavior. If you're good at public speaking, you must be an extrovert. If you hate talking on the telephone, you must be an introvert.
When you become sensitive to the more subtle realms of existence, you understand that "extroversion" and "introversion" are best understood in terms of energy. Even though the world tends to reward the loudest among us, there is a hidden power in those who thrive in the silence. It's no coincidence that many intuitives, mediums, and psychics tend to be more introverted.
When you are someone who feels more centered in solitude, knowing how to care for your energy can change your life. In this episode, I get to pick the brain of Deborah Chalk, who is a Wayfinder coach and Body Magic coach who helps introverts and sensitive people with their mind-body connection so they can tine into their intuition and enjoy their life more.
Love the podcast? Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss future episodes that come out weekly! And if you want to dig deeper into how practical applications of spirituality can change your life, why don't you join the Facebook community?
CONNECT WITH DEBORAH: website
CONNECT WITH JULIA: website // facebook page // facebook group // instagram
INTROVERSION, PERFECTIONISM, AND HAPPINESS feat. Deborah Chalk
Julia: [00:00:00] Hi, everyone. Welcome to Becoming Divine. I am your host, Julia Wesley of Divine Realignment. And today I have Debra Chalk with us. She is a Wayfinder coach and a Body Magic coach who helps introverts and sensitive people with their mind-body connection so they can tune into their intuition and enjoy their life more.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Deborah: [00:00:34] Thank you. It's a real pleasure, Julia. So glad to be with you today.
Julia: [00:00:38] I'm really excited to dive into your work. I have so many questions, but let's start with introversion. So I consider myself to be an introvert, but because I'm so confident, I'm not afraid to talk to people. I'm not afraid of the telephone. Things like that, that other people, they don't necessarily see me as an introvert. So I'm interested in how you make a determination between what's an introvert. What's not.
Deborah: [00:01:04] It's a great question. And it's something that I've found as well in life, Julia. I really relate to what you're saying about people who meet me or know me would probably not think that I was an introvert and it comes from the kind of old idea that introverts are the ones who are the wallflowers, who are the ones that are at the edge of the dance floor. The way I see the difference between introverts and extroverts is not so much in behavior. It's about where people get their energy and how people replenish their energy. So for me, if I had a very busy week and it was a lot of outward facing things, doing a talk or meeting with lots of clients, I would need to replenish by spending time myself.
So that might include, cozying up on the sofa with a novel, or getting out for a walk in nature or doing some yoga. Your batteries are charged by being yourself. My husband is more of an extrovert in the way that I would describe it because he is energized by spending time with people and being out there.
So he wouldn't have to balance off things if you went to the party. Because that gives him energy. And that doesn't mean to say I don't like parties. I really like parties and I'm messing them, so much. I'm sure lots of listeners are looking forward to the days of when we can have parties again.
And we miss it too. We miss it in a different way perhaps than the extroverts. But we still miss it because we still love to be with people. We love to be with our friends. We love to be with the people that we love, but it's about where you replenish your energy.
Julia: [00:02:49] Yes. I really liked that description of it because
I would have friends who are like, let's go out and I'm like, how can you want to go out after eight hours of work? How can you want to do that? How are you not exhausted? And it took me a bit to understand that they actually are energized by doing that. And I'm like I need to just be with myself again, and it's almost very much paying attention to my energy.
I spend a lot of time paying attention to other people's energy. And so when I come back home, I need to just be like, okay, I need to let go of everyone else's energy and focus on mine again. And that's replenishing for me.
Deborah: [00:03:29] I love it. And you know that when you say about energy, one of the things I do with the mind body work is some energy practices.
So there's one that I do, which is called releasing tension. And you imagine you do a body scan from your toes up to your head. And then you imagine that you have a pitcher or a jug of golden elixir above your head. And the golden elixir goes down through the body and it takes away all the stress and all the tension. Takes it through the ground, and the ground repurposes it into positive energy.
And that's a kind of clearing that you can do, even if when you have a shower at the end of the day, you imagine that it's not just the dirt of the day that's washing off. It's also the energetic muck of the day washes off and down the plug hole. And the the golden elixir meditation is an energetic version of that.
You're allowing it to swirl around any places of tension within the body and take any tension there it needs. So that you can be replenished in that way.
Julia: [00:04:32] So it's funny you mentioned showers. When I was a kid I would spend forever in the shower. And I say, when I was a kid, like I don't still do it, but especially when I still lived at home, it would drive my parents crazy how long I would spend in the shower.
But that's exactly what I was doing. I was cleaning my energy body. I was using the water to wash away everyone else's energy and it felt so good. I would literally spend 40 minutes doing it. My parents were like, get out of the bathroom.
Deborah: [00:05:01] And this is also for you noticing that water is particularly replenishing to you. Just in terms of Julia, do you really like being by the ocean as well?
Julia: [00:05:10] You know? There's a certain ocean in particular, a certain spot that I really like. But if I choose, it's definitely more mountains than ocean. But I do love saltwater. Yeah.
Deborah: [00:05:20] I think this is something that introverts can do as part of their noticing, is just saying, oh, that's one of the things I need to have on my list that when I need to be replenished, that's one of my goals.
Sometimes you'll have the half a day on the weekend where you can chill out and take time for yourself. And other times you're just going to have little tiny gaps, and it was really helpful if you've got a kind of, almost like a playlist of ideas of things you can do. If you've got a longer amount of time or things you can do, if you just got five minutes just to recharge.
It just gives you that flexibility. Then you're not getting to the stage where your energy is just gone so low that you then get into emotional stuff which isn't bad in itself. It's great to process emotions and to feel emotions and to listen to the messages that they have for you.
But in terms of how much resilience you've got, the little drips of self care can make a massive difference.
Julia: [00:06:20] I think you're absolutely right. I didn't have much resilience, oh, in my teenage years, at all. So it was so important for me to shower every day. I couldn't understand how people could go to bed without showering first. Like, my skin crawls because I had such poor boundaries I was taking on everybody else's stuff, energy. And I like the golden elixir method that you use because it almost reminds me of replenishing your skin barrier. Like how we do that to where it's we're not just cleansing anymore.
We're adding all of that extra goodness and--
Deborah: [00:06:56] absolutely. I know it's in quite a few energetic practices as having kind of the sphere of light around yourself. And you can imagine that as any color that you like or any different consistency lights, sometimes it's nice to think of it as tree branches around you.
I've done it as flowers, gardenias. I've had a Halloween themed one. Just play with it and it's not to keep people out. It's not to keep the energy of the people that you love out.
It's not to distance yourself. It's just to feel your own agency, your own place within the world. And like you said, just to feel that you can be yourself and show up fully. And then the other really great one is doing the grounding energetic work. And you can either imagine a cord or a strong ribbon or tree roots that go down from the spine or from the feet.
And they go right down through the earth and they just anchor into the earth. And they're magical in that you can go wherever you need to go, and the roots stay with you. So even if you're traveling in a car, you can still be grounded. But one thing you can also do before you go into a challenging situation is just think to yourself, okay, I'm going to immensely ground myself.
So you imagine I'm going to imagine the risks going through into the earth. And I imagined myself being graded. And then imagine this energetic space that you have around you that you can just carry with you and to whatever it is you're going to do.
Julia: [00:08:28] Do you want to expand a little bit more on the importance of grounding as an introvert?
Because we were talking about water before, but that's a large part of why mountains literally take my breath away is because they're so grounding for me. Like water for me is a great tool that I can use daily, right? But getting outside and in the mountains and in nature, something about that is also very clarifying.
Deborah: [00:08:52] I think it's not just being in nature. I think the being present in nature is another level, because I can go out into nature and be all caught up in my thoughts and absolutely, be oblivious to, I used to cause there's so many good podcasts, and go out there and think, oh, I'll just listen to a podcast or I'll just listen to a fun story or whatever.
And then you miss out on your walk. And so sometimes, I'll make that conscious decision of no, I'm going to be present to this walk. I'm going to be present to nature. I'm going to be present to the forest.
And allow myself to experience it. Because I think that we get really used to tuning out. And even things like, when you're eating your breakfast, are you eating your breakfast or are you scrolling your social media while eating your breakfast?
Julia: [00:09:43] Yeah. And I think you hit on what it is for me is, mountains create a sense of presence and space. For me, when I'm in the presence-- or even when I'm just looking, I can look at a picture of a mountain and I'm like, oh, that's good stuff. Because it does it not necessarily the illusion of space, but it brings to mind that there is more space that is available to me than what I was previously focusing on. Because when an introvert gets a little overwhelmed, I think that speaking for me, I have a tendency to hyper-focus on the energy that I'm like messing with currently.
And so when I'm out in nature, and like you said, like when you're present in nature, all of a sudden you can breathe a little bit and expand. Because the trees are having their own experience and then the birds are having their own experience and you're like, oh, there's more going on.
Deborah: [00:10:32] Love it. That's really great noticing of the difference that it makes for you. And what also comes up for me there, as you say, that is about the openness. And I think that the kind of fixed mind to the open mind is where the intuition then has the space to come in.
All links to intuition, all that we've been talking about because, there was a whole thing about Archimedes in the bath and he gets the Eureka moments, he was in water or I think Salvador Dali used to fall asleep for his nap, with something that he would drop. And that meant that he was able to tap into that dream state.
But between waking and sleeping and it's where the brain opens up in that way, through meditation, through breath work, through being in nature, it opens the door to allow the intuition to come through. Where otherwise you would be fixed in your ideas about how things needed to be. About how things needed to be done.
Julia: [00:11:32] Do you think that it may be a little bit easier for an introvert than an extrovert to tap into that intuition?
Or do you just think it's different ways that we tap into our intuition?
Deborah: [00:11:43] I think that extroverts absolutely do tap into their intuition. Just, it must be a really different way. It must feel really different. Of course they do, because we have so much creativity in the world.
They have so much wonderful creativity. There are people out there doing amazing creative work in the world and they wouldn't be able to do that if they weren't able to tap into wonderful, juicy amounts of intuition.
Julia: [00:12:13] So I used to work at an architect firm.
I was not an architect, but I used to work there. And one of the things they thrive off of is collaboration. To the point where they almost tore down all the walls in the office space, just so that they could look at each other and talk to each other all the time. And to me that was exhausting, right?
Because I'm constantly reading everybody's energy, just subconsciously, right? That's what I pay attention to as an introvert and as an empath. Even though, it's probably not any of my business most of the time, but it's what I was doing. And to other people and like you extroverts, this is how you do it.
You feed off of each other. And I'm over here exhausted. And you guys are like, oh yeah! They're just like cranking out job after job. And I'm like, oh my God, this is why I have to go home and take a nap. So I do think it's funny that for an introvert, for me being quiet and being still really, and being present is where I tune in.
But to watch an extrovert do it, almost riding a bicycle for them. Like they have to constantly be moving in order for it to work. And I'm like, that's very interesting.
Deborah: [00:13:16] You're going to be able to see it and view it and see what's going on, and then notice the patterns. Just being able to step back like that. And you knew that can come through in creative ways as well. You could have a novelist who happens to be an introvert, and it's that noticing that they have, because all of the world can be, buzzing around them, but they're able to see it and things about it. And notice relationships with people.
I love also that you took, realize you needed the time in the day to go and get the nap, because that was you balancing it off in the way that we said.
Julia: [00:13:51] When you talk about mind, body magic, can you describe that a little bit? Is it tuning into the intuition of your body? Is it a little more.
Deborah: [00:13:58] So there are four parts of it.
So the key is to know your body, and this is all the different tools that we use, which help clients to actually realize that they have feet, that they have a body that, they're not just all stuck up on their heads, because this is something, as a sensitive person, as an introvert, I was so much in my head.
I had anxiety. I still have anxiety, of course, but I had more anxiety. I had more worry and it was all going on and it was all up there spinning around in my head. And I just wasn't in my body at all. All of my energy was in my head, maybe a bit above my head, but I wasn't actually living in my body.
This was something that was, I know it sounds crazy, but this felt really different to me and really new to me because I had lived as somebody who loves to learn as somebody who loves to read books.
I just had lived in my head for so many years.
And you realize that your presence was in your whole being, not just in your head.
And then the next part is to inhabit your emotions. So again, you're introverted, you're sensitive. If you're sensitive, my goodness, you have big emotions.
They can be really big sometimes and you get, get all caught up in them and it can be really hard. So I wasn't really processing them very well. I know I wasn't using them to help me. And through that you can learn how to be with your emotions in a way that feels safe. So even one of the tools is called Safe Spaces. And it's a way of feeling and processing emotions in a way that feels safer.
And then the end is noticing the mind. So it's all the tools relating to when all the limiting beliefs come up, when the thoughts, I can't I shouldn't, I've messed up. I'm not good enough, all of that kind of stuff. And just what to do when that happens and it's going to happen because we're human and it's going to continue to happen.
And we've been talking about that earlier in our talk Julia, about where the opening comes, where the allowance comes, and then it's actually asking your inner wisdom, being there for your inner wisdom, saying to yourself things like, what do I need. What do I need to do? What do I need today?
And then things like, what's the kindest thing that I can do for myself either now, or as soon as possible? And then what happens is when you start to tune into your inner wisdom, then it's almost like your inner wisdom reacts to that. Oh, you're finally listening to me. I've been trying to tell you stuff for years, but you haven't been listening.
I'm so glad you're listening now. And then it will start to give you more, but it's a definite, it's an opening. It's a path it's an allowing. And the more you allow it, the more it's able to come through.
Julia: [00:16:49] The more that you listen to your body and the more that you're in your body, the more that you're able to stand, just how much knowledge is already within you. The need to sit with myself, is what allowed me to be like, oh, there's like my elbows, trying to tell me something, there's knowledge and wisdom and there's spirit in my body.
Deborah: [00:17:12] What you were saying about the elbow that can come up when we're doing this kind of work. So it will be a part of the body. And then you can start to say things like, what shape is that feeling?
What color is that feeling? How old is that feeling and what message does it have that it wants to help us. And then I find with all of this intuition path as an industry, I find writing is for me a good way of moving forward with that, because, if you move into journaling, you can do free writing, just to tune in with yourself, you can ask yourself questions and then write the answers from the inner wisdom point of view.
Julia: [00:17:52] You were talking about anxiety earlier and that's also something that I really struggled with, particularly throughout middle school, high school, and up into a few years into my adulthood, it was. I didn't want to listen to it. And it was something that I was very much feeling in my body.
A lot of it was up in my head. I was up here all the time, but the effects of it were not just mental. I was feeling it in my body. I was so disassociated from anything that my body was feeling or trying to tell me, so that when I went back into my body, my body was like we've got things to tell you, man, that you have been ignoring.
And I was like, oh boy.
But when you do that work and you start paying attention the answers to everything that I was anxious about and that I was avoiding in my depression were already within me. And it wasn't the doomsday thing that I thought it was or imagined it to be. This leads me into the Wayfinder coaching that you do.
Does, if I'm understand this correctly, does it have to do with knowing that the way forward, that knowledge is within you?
Deborah: [00:18:55] It is certainly that. The wayfinding takes people through whatever change they're going through in their life.
Julia: [00:19:03] And I was looking at your your blog and one of the very first things that popped up was perfectionism and Mary Poppins. And I'm like, oh, two of my favorite things. Like I really sometimes struggle with perfectionism. And then Mary Poppins was one of my favorite movies as a kid.
And I still think it's really fun. And I never thought to make the connection between Ms. Practically Perfect In Every Way and perhaps my own struggles. And I think it's really interesting that do you perhaps notice introverts struggle with perfectionism?
Deborah: [00:19:36] It's my own personal experience. I think that it comes up a lot.
And am I good enough, also comes up. Which is linked to the perfectionism. And I didn't realize I was a perfectionist because I didn't think I was perfect enough to be a perfectionist. That was part of the perfectionism. So I thought you could only be a perfectionist if all your filing was done, if your house was always completely immaculate.
You were just always completely put together. So I didn't think it was a perfectionist. But you are a perfectionist if you're always thinking that you should be better than you are being, that is the perfectionism. I share with you that I loved Mary Poppins as well. When I was a child. So many times she said, I watched Mary Poppins too.
And I thought, oh, I really hope it's as good because I might be disappointed. And it was as good. It was wonderful. I don't know. I loved it. And it was exactly that she was perfect. She made things magical. She took the children on these wonderful carousel rides. And I really think that was also part of what was fun, with being a teacher., let's go into the magic of our school trip, wherever we were going.
And I just, that thing of making things fun and magical for children. She was practically perfect in every way. Things were spit spot, you could rely on her to make a day just lovely. It's lovely to be able to do that for people. It's lovely to be able to make a day lovely, but they're definitely as the practically perfect in every way thing going on there.
And I think that was part of what the attraction was. And it was just recently, maybe over the past few years I've realized that was why one of the reasons why I love those films so much is because with Mary, nothing can go wrong on the challenges.
Julia: [00:21:25] Yeah. Yeah. And isn't that the thing though with perfectionism is you're really giving your power away to some sort of unspecified future.
Because as we were talking about embodiment earlier, if you're always striving for the moving finish line, you're never exactly where you are. You can't do anything if you're not present in your body and in your mind and in this moment.
So it's funny. I like how you described this idea of perfectionism, I'm not a perfectionist because I haven't reached perfection yet. Instead of recognizing that I'm a perfectionist because I'm always striving for perfection. And it's one of those things about perfection.
You never reach it. You never think you're good enough for it. You never think that's--
Deborah: [00:22:03] it's so sneaky. It's it seeps in there in so many aspects of life. It really does. And it drives you. And then the, that, that side of you thinks that it's good because it's driving you. And you think then, or if I work harder, I'll get better.
But the allowing of you being human and needing that rest and play can be magical.
Julia: [00:22:27] It is. And that's the thing about being motivated by perfection, right? Is that, why are you doing this in the first place? And then so when you eventually get exhausted by trying to achieve perfection, you're like, who am I? Why am I doing any of this?
What's the point to anything that I'm doing? If I don't care about perfection anymore, it's almost like I had really almost built my identity around trying to achieve perfection in some weird way. Like with my grades, especially when I was in high school with my grades or, with my appearance or the way other people perceived me, how I was supposed to look to, be like, oh, she's fine.
Don't worry about her. That was perfection. And when all of a sudden, like all of that went away, I'm like, who am I? What's happening? I don't understand what this is anymore. And stop trying to achieve perfection because that's not even what I want.
Deborah: [00:23:18] I think it's often said, but I think that, social media takes this to a different kind of level. Before there was Pinterest people just put a sandwich in their child's lunchbox sent it to school. And now, it's a sandwich ship, like a whale with cucumber waves.
Julia: [00:23:38] And I think that's creative, right? That's fun if that's something that you enjoy doing. Great go for it. But it's cool because it's something someone enjoys doing, they put their own creativity and their own joy into it that you don't have any of that. I don't care about making a whale out of a sandwich and creating cucumber waves.
So for me, it's just going to suck. And if it's not fun for me, why do it?
Deborah: [00:24:01] I love this. And I think it's a really good point that you make is for some people that will be huge fun. And for me, at the right moment, who knows? That could be huge, fun.
Just where you put the pressure on it? Where you allow it to mean something about your worth as a person.
Julia: [00:24:20] Your worth as a person. A hundred percent. I've always loved reading and studying and just gathering random bits of information about anything.
I would love to learn more from you Mr. Expert, or Miss Expert. Tell me anything. I love it. I love a plaque. I love walking into a museum. I just love that shit. It feeds me. Yeah. Oh, thrilling. Thrilling to me. And so that's why I was so good at school. I love to learn.
But to other people they're like, how are you so good at it? I'm like, I don't even necessarily know if it's because I'm quote unquote smart. Or if it's because I love, this is what I love. Like you've caught me in my passion. Yeah.
Deborah: [00:24:59] If you're good at the game of school, there'll be some children who are, children of perhaps some of your listeners who are just as clever, but they're just not good at the game of school.
Julia: [00:25:10] It's the game of school, right? Like I suck at soccer or I'm sorry. Or maybe football for you. Don't ask me to kick a ball around. I don't care. I do not care. But I, the things that I'm passionate about and the things that I love to do, you may think that I'm good at them, but it's because I enjoy putting that time and that creativity into it.
So that's the thing. And that's the thing about perfection is I would never strive for perfection for something that I love doing, because it would never cross my mind. It has nothing to do with anything, like that's not why I'm doing it.
Deborah: [00:25:40] Oh, I love that. And we were talking earlier about the energy of things coming through.
Yeah. Doesn't the energy of when somebody has had fun with creation come through? You can feel it, you could have the same thing, one created by somebody who was just doing it to make it perfect. And the other, which was created by somebody that had the passion for it. Yes. Energy of that passion would come through and we see it in, like great chefs. They're passionate about their food. Or a great hotel where they have the real passion for customer service rather than just, we're just folding the sheets that way, because we read that's where you're meant to do five star sheets.
Julia: [00:26:23] Yeah. It's a completely different energy. And that's the thing I think about corporate America at the very least they'll try and automate that type of passion, so that they can replicate it. And it's like, you can't replicate that. That's why everyone hates working for you.
My dad and I are huge music people. One of the things for him are guitarists. He loves like a Santana or an Eddie van Halen or someone who not only loves to play the guitar, but has such passion for it that they can create their own song. They can compose for themselves.
Cause my dad's like, that's next level. Like I love to sing and I think I'm pretty good at it, but I don't have the passion for it enough to create my own composition. I just really like to sing. I just think it's fun, but to someone else who has like that next level passion for it, I'll never reach.
Deborah: [00:27:15] The enjoyment that you have of it at the level that you're doing, it is still massively valuable because it's recharging you it's energy.
I think that's still really wonderful and we can also really admire and each have our own special passions that we do want to take to the next level. So when we do have a passion, that is one of the gifts of it as well, that, you're going to really dive deep into it. You're going to allow yourself that, that time that you just take it to the next level.
And I, and you were talking about being somebody who's a lifelong learner and who loves learning, just diving into that. And you'll really fun.
Julia: [00:28:00] Absolutely. And that's the thing is when you just do it for the fun and the passion of it, the joy of it, then it's replenishing your energy. But when I went a little nuts in middle school and high school, all of a sudden I hated it.
Because I was going for that kind of perfection. And so it sucked the joy out of it. And that's something that even my mom has commented on. She's like, this is why I hated when you were in school, in middle school and high school, because I'm like you're great at it. Like you're smart, whatever, but you no longer enjoyed what you were doing.
And she's and you had such a fire and a passion for it when you were a kid. And I'm like, yeah, there was no pressure. It was just fun. I could just do it. And it was energizing, right? Like I'd come home from school and I'd be energized. But instead, when grades started to count for something, when all of a sudden it was about your worth as who you're going to be as an adult, then I was like, oh, this sucks.
Then I needed to come home and take a nap. It's different. The energy is just different.
Deborah: [00:28:55] I think that I saw the same thing happened to myself. I love to read books as a child and read all the time. And then I did a degree in English and we were reading, for study and it was all of it across majority of the stories I'll have really unhappy endings.
There's a lot of unhappy endings when you study English literature. And so it really changed my relationship with reading and it took a while to reestablish that relationship and realize that it didn't have to look like the academic version. This is another thing, a lot of sensitive introverts are, they can be academic.
And what can happen is when you make your passion into an academic pursuit, it can rub off the edges of the joy. And then it's just about allowing yourself too reconnect with what it was that took you to that area of interest in the first place. And maybe say, somebody was at musical conservatory and they're studying opera. But they actually really enjoy pop music, spend time with the pop music as well.
Do you hit the whole colorful thing that it can be rather than what tends to happen is in the academic world, things can sometimes get put into boxes. So just allow it to be that full color thing again and bring your passion back into it.
Julia: [00:30:14] Yeah. I completely agree with that. I was actually going for a degree and I had to be like, I can't keep doing this to myself.
This is so miserable. Like I also, I love to learn and you're right when you're doing it all of a sudden for a grade and it's all academic and you have to do a very structured, like I can blow or tear through a book. In a day. Two a day, if it's something that I really love! Cause I also really love to read, but again, if it's not something that I'm not doing it for fun, then all of a sudden I'm like dragging my feet.
I'm like, Ooh, I don't want to do it. That I think is it that really speaks to the passion that you have as an introvert. How, where it may seem like quiet. And it's just because I think in my opinion, it's a little bit.
Deborah: [00:30:59] Another thing when it comes to me, when you say that Julia is I really like modern Mrs. Darcy has a blog and a website. It's all about, it's a book club basically. And she's based in America. She's really great book recommendations, like fantastic ones. She does a summer reading guide and she talks about DNF-ing books. DNF is do not finish. And I think just as we were talking, it occurred to me that where else do you allow yourself to DNF?
So, if something isn't lighting you up, are you able just to say, no, this isn't for me. And then just DNF it, put it to one side and just accept that isn't the thing that you want to be spending your time, right? Because we can get caught up in, oh, I've started it. So I need to finish what happens when you allow yourself to DNF.
Julia: [00:31:51] You free up so much space that way. And you know that I don't like that thing. So we can stop bothering with it. Yes. I think it's a little bit a to the way we, at least in America, the way I was raised, where you start something and you finish it, because you've already said that you would. So you have to stick to your word. And I'm like, I don't want to do gymnastics anymore, man.
Like I thought it was cool and changed my mind and they're like, nope, we signed up for it. I love my parents. I had a fantastic childhood, but they did this to my brother all the time. They'd sign him up for football and he's like, oh my God, I don't want to do this anymore.
And changing the paradigm, the shift, the of perspective into saying, all right you tried it and you don't like it. And let's not waste time doing something we know we don't like. Cause then you're just forcing it. You're going to hate it even more.
Deborah: [00:32:44] I love the connection that you've made to old patterns and where it's come from, because I hadn't realized that, but you're absolutely right.
Julia: [00:32:51] That's exactly it, isn't it. Yeah. And I think even, so I think as a kid, the kid who's more invested in winning is going to be the better player and a better teammate than some like kid. Who's just I'm here because my mom wouldn't let me quit. What kind of a team player are you, if you're just forcing yourself to do something? How valuable is your contribution if you're just forcing yourself to be here anyways?
So do you want to tell people how to find you and how they can work?
Deborah: [00:33:16] Oh, thanks Julia. I'm at www.deborahchalk.com. And Deborah is D E B O R A H. And Chalk is C H A L K. So they can find me there and I have sign up for my newsletter. And if people sign up, I'll also send them the Calm Kit. And the Calm Kit really relates to what we've been talking about today.
It has just some tools to feel calmer in your every day. So that's probably the best place to get hold of me. I've decided for my own calm, not to do tons and tons on social media. So that's why I love coming and talking on podcasts like this.
Head over to my website would be best.
Julia: [00:33:55] All right. That sounds awesome. I will have all of that information in the episode notes. And thank you so much, Debra. I really enjoyed speaking with you and that's it for now. We'll see you next time. Thanks.